Here's the business end, which fits into the lathe spindle and holds the collets;
And fitted to the lathe;
All surfaces are hardened and ground.
There should be a drawbar with it, but mine came without one. So, I bought a generic adjustable drawbar. As supplied it was 150mm long, which was fine but with the drawbar fitted I couldn't open or close the belt cover, so I cut 30mm off the non-threaded end. To hold it central at the pulley end I made up a simple sleeve from brass, the same as the back spindle steadies that I made earlier;
Fitted;
Tightening the drawbar by a fraction of a turn closes the collet by pulling it back into the taper, the drawbar having a threaded hole in one end which mates with the collet thread.
The fitting is designed to use 8mm watchmakers collets, easily obtainable in a large variety of sizes from 0.2mm(!) to 7mm. Here's a small variety;
Collets are numbered, the number corresponding to the size in tenths of a millimetre. So, a number 8 is 0.8mm and a number 21 is 2.1mm.
Also available are more specialist collets, including step collets which have a series of steps in 2mm increments to hold round flat objects such as gear wheels;
Also available are more specialist collets, including step collets which have a series of steps in 2mm increments to hold round flat objects such as gear wheels;
Step collets come in 5 sizes, each collet having steps of a slightly different diameters. They range from 5.4mm to 23.0mm.
Here's one holding a wheel;
You'll note that there's a keyway (slot) in the collets, this locates in a key inside the adapter. The key is not there to drive the collet, friction takes care of that, but to stop the collet rotating when the drawbar is tightened.
Each lathe manufacturer had different ideas about how collets should be made. The body diameters and the taper are constants, but body length and threads varied between manufacturers. There are two thread sizes in use, B8 which is European and has a 40 TPI pitch, and WW which is American and uses a .625mm pitch. Both thread sizes are very close, and B8 collets can be used in WW drawbars, but WW collets can bind when used in B8 drawbars. Luckily my drawbar works with both thread types giving me more options when buying collets.
Here's some collets from different manufacturers side by side showing the difference in body lengths;
Left to right; Lorch, Pultra, Boley-Lienen, Wolf-Jahn.
Here's one holding a wheel;
You'll note that there's a keyway (slot) in the collets, this locates in a key inside the adapter. The key is not there to drive the collet, friction takes care of that, but to stop the collet rotating when the drawbar is tightened.
Each lathe manufacturer had different ideas about how collets should be made. The body diameters and the taper are constants, but body length and threads varied between manufacturers. There are two thread sizes in use, B8 which is European and has a 40 TPI pitch, and WW which is American and uses a .625mm pitch. Both thread sizes are very close, and B8 collets can be used in WW drawbars, but WW collets can bind when used in B8 drawbars. Luckily my drawbar works with both thread types giving me more options when buying collets.
Here's some collets from different manufacturers side by side showing the difference in body lengths;
Left to right; Lorch, Pultra, Boley-Lienen, Wolf-Jahn.
And the advantages over ER collets? Firstly having a set of step collets will come in very useful for holding wheels for face profiling, much easier to use than a separate step chuck held in a collet or 3 jaw chuck. Also, as you only need to tighten the drawbar by a fraction of a turn rather than manipulate two tommy bars to hold the workpiece steady it will make jobs like facing axles to length quicker. The disadvantages are that each collet is only suitable to hold material of its stated size, unlike an ER collet which has a clamping range of 1mm. However, I won't need a large selection of sizes for the work I intend to do which these, which will mainly be facing axles and turning pin points, and facing to length and profiling wheels. Another reason for wanting one is that I like collecting Unimat accessories! (And I have a fascination with watchmakers lathes).
A very useful reference is 'The Watchmaker's and Model Engineer's Lathe' by Donald de Carle.
Paul.
that all looks like a great edition to the U3. I know what you man about the normal step chucks; fitting them into the 3 jaw chuck and tightening everything up, while keeping the step chuck and wheel all in the right orientation to each other can be a bit of a nightmare.
ReplyDeleteI really must figure out the issue with the tailstock on my U3 and then get back to having another go at wheels for Ivor at some point.
Yes, you must get it sorted!
DeleteAs for step chucks, the Fohrmann ones are great but fiddly to use. Hopefully the collets will be easier, and more accurate as well.
Hi Paul,
ReplyDeleteThis is quite fascinating. Will the U3 watchmaker's collet adapter work with the Unimat SL? This, or a DIY version, might be a more economical alternative to the Unimat WW spindle assembly. Those things seem to routinely go for around $400.
I appreciate your observations on collets and their usages. Information that's very relevant to my interests.
Thanks also for the work you put into your site. Please keep it up!
Cheers,
James
James,
DeleteThe SL has a smaller spindle bore than the 3 so the Unimat 3 adapter won't fit. However, watchmakers collets can also be had with 6mm and 6.5mm body diameters, so a DIY version might be possible for the SL following the same design. Perhaps the way forward would be to aquire a 6mm collet and offer it up to the SL, that way you'll have a better idea whether the idea is feasible or not. You'll need to buy and possibly modify a drawbar, you could make your own but I feel that finding the right tap would be difficult. The book that I refer to has all the size information regarding watchmakers collets.
And, thank you for the kind words!
Paul.
Gracias por compartir tus conocimientos, desde hace 10 años tengo un unimat 3 con varios aditamentos, nunca había usado un torno he aprendido mucho viendo tu técnica saludos desde Córdoba Veracruz México
ReplyDeleteGreetings from England!
DeleteI'm pleased that you've found my blog useful, and I hope that you're having fun with your lathe.
Thanks for sharing this very useful information, Paul! Just one question: I happen to have a complete original drawbar and am hesitating at which collets to buy? I would normally prefer the ones with the B8 thread, but since collets are so costly I would appreciate your advice on which ones - which mark - to choose that are affordable and at the same time reliable. Thanks a lot in advance!
ReplyDeleteI'm pleased that you've found my post useful.
DeleteAll of my collets have been bought second hand individually from eBay, I'm more interested in getting the size that I need in good condition rather than aim for a specific maker, so anything from the usual watchmakers lathe suppliers. Having said that I did buy a Starrett collet which is longer than normal so that's one maker to avoid.
If you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask.
Hello Paul,
ReplyDeleteMany thanks for your very useful information on the Unimat 3 watchmaker's collet holder! I have one such holder complete and I would very much like to start using it, preferrably with B8 threaded collets.
Would you have any advice on which mark to choose as there are a number of providers based in Europe ... any advice would be much appreciated. Ideally you could [point me to that provider that offers good quality collets for the best (= most economical) price,
See my reply above. Any of the usual watchmakers lathe manufactorers collets will work fine.
Delete